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Native version getting closer

Discussion in 'GIMP for Mac' started by Auria, May 7, 2008.

  1. lisanet

    lisanet Member

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    yep, you got it.
    "Seashore" may be some kind of starting point

    nope...

    ... at least, not by me. Are you volunteering? ;)

    -skl
     
  2. temhawk

    temhawk New Member

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    I tried Seashore a while ago and didn't find it too useful. Looking at their sourceforge page it doesn't seem like it's being developed and improved too actively. I do like/use Pixelmator though, very nice.

    I'm sorry I can't volunteer to make an OSX UI for Gimp, because I don't know how to program it.
     
  3. andreasw

    andreasw Member

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    Trust me. If you're used to work with Gimps highly criticized user interface, you won't get confused by the fact that the dialogs have a different color...
    A native Gimp is what we all want in the end. Every little step to get there is a step in the right direction.
     
  4. lisanet

    lisanet Member

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    So, why are there no developers who will do this task? This is a developer forum, so (IMO) it should be easy to get some people together to do the work. But, trust me, I only got some help once. Yes, _once_ (Thanks to Timo, who helped me build the PPC versions and gave me very useful hints about the internals of MacPorts.)

    Where are all those developers who will do anything to get a step closer to something called "native GIMP"? I can't see anybody. All I can see here in this forum (you know, in this _developer_ forum) are postings like "... what's the status of a "native" GIMP". "Please build a native GIMP" and this kind of things. Why aren't there any hints on _how_ to do this? Why aren't there any patches to GIMP's source codes? Is there really nobody willing to join the project? Only "users" reading this developer forum?

    Take a look at the Sourceforge Project page of "GIMP on OS X" and just count the members of the development team. How many people do you get? Still thinking that they could manage the task? (BTW, Timo just "left" the project...)

    But now, let's discuss some more facts.

    First, please define the word "native".

    Is a "native" GIMP an app which uses core libraries and technologies from Apple? Hhmm, this leads to the next question: What are "libraries and technologies from Apple"?

    Let's assume this will be the Aqua widget set and the standard OS X dialogs (opening, saving, printing) and functions (drag & drop). Then GIMP will never be "native". Why? GIMP uses GTK+. GTK+ has its own widgets, dialogs and look&feel.

    Let's assume, that X11 is a native Mac OS X application. (yes, X11 uses core libraries and all those Aqua widgets). Now If GIMP uses X11, is GIMP "native" or is it "foreign"?

    Is a "native" GIMP an app which will have its menubar at the top of the screen and does _not_ use X11? Is it important that this kind of "native" GIMP uses other OS X features (drag&drop, color management, printing) ?

    If you think so, checkout the SVN on the Sourceforge Project Page of GIMP on OS X, and adapt it to _not_ compile against X11 (BTW, as a starting point: "sudo port install gimp +universal +quartz +no_X11" will be you friend)
    But what will you get?
    You will get GIMP running without X11 and which has a menubar at the top of the screen. That's all. Nothing more.
    Is this "native"?
    There will be no support for grahic tablets, the keyboard layout of various languages will not work properly, printing dialogs are still "very different" and drag&drop will not work. Is this native? If you think so.... alright, checkout the SVN mentioned above, compile it, build a distributable package and join the project on "GIMP on OS X.

    And once again, is a GIMP version which looks (despite the menubar) identical to the "X11 version", which lacks tablet support, can't be used with drag&drop, is this a "native" Mac OS X application?

    IMO it is _not_ ! So, trust me, it's easy to compile GIMP without X11 support. But that will be all you'll get. No X11 support. Just read the various other postings about a "native" GIMP. Do you really want this kind of software?

    (BTW, please do _not_ expect me do compile GIMP without X11 support. Why? The current version is just more stable and _usable_. Do you know the Mac OS X way? "It just works". And GIMP compiled without X11 doesn't. IMHO.)

    And finally, do you have some knowlegde in bash scripting, patching C sources, writing ports for MacPorts _and_ do you want to join the project? Is there anybody else?

    -skl
     
  5. andreasw

    andreasw Member

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    and that can't be fixed? I don't except the first native version to "just work".
     
  6. lisanet

    lisanet Member

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    and who should do this? Me? And if I do so, who will do the other tasks? Who will update, build, patch, fix, test, package and distribute the GIMP application bundles?

    I have only a limited amount of time to work on GIMP on OS X.

    I'm really very familiar with Linux systems, patching C sources, managing the build process with MacPorts, but I'm no GTK core developer, so that I first had to study all the internal design decisions the GTK team has made before I can write some useful code to make GTK more integrated with OS X functions.

    So, I can do all those tasks of keeping GIMP / X11 up to date and running, but I have no time to additionally work on basic GTK features too.

    Is there anybody reading this forum, who can do that?

    -skl
     
  7. Anita Raj

    Anita Raj New Member

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    OpenOffice 3.1 is also open source which NOW includes a native Mac OS X version (X11 no longer required).

    I wish Gimp developers follow that.

    Best - Anita.
     
  8. lisanet

    lisanet Member

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    ... just to make it clear one more time.

    It's not the GIMP developer team who are maintaining and buildung the GIMP on OS X packages. It's only me.

    And currently there's nobody else... sadly.

    :(

    -skl
     
  9. lisanet

    lisanet Member

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    BTW,

    I wish, there would be more people here in this forum who will contribute to the open source community.

    What about you? Do you want to join the project?

    Come on. Don't complain about GIMP not being "native". Fix it. And then give it back to the community. That's open source. Contributing to a project to make it better.

    If you don't like GIMP on OS X, well, fell free to use any other software you like. That's open source. You can take the software if you want to, but you don't have to use it, if it doesn't fit your needs. AND, again, open source will give you the rights to modify it to fullfill your needs. So just do it. Build a "native" GIMP.

    Is there anybody reading this forum, who will do this? Or are there only "developers" who want to take open source software, because it's free of charge?

    Oh yes.... of course. And the Linux kernel is open source too and it supports really very much different devices, and the Debian project is open source too and distributes a complete operating system including a variety of tools and apps. And the GNU compiler collection is open source too and it NOW .....

    What do you want to point out?

    And again. Get the sources (you have the right to do so, the are open sources) and fix them, enhance them, bring them even to more no one can think of now, and then, give them back to the open source community. But, please, don't complain that others won't do that for you.

    So finally, is there anybody out there willing to help?

    -skl
     
  10. Anita Raj

    Anita Raj New Member

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    Big Thanks for that.

    I am just a graphic artist.

    Touchy, touchy! Hmmm! Isn't this place to ask for what we expect?

    Isn't that obvious? You obviously mistook request for complaint.

    Thanks skl (for what you 're doing) & no intention to quit using GIMP. :)

    Best - Anita.
     
  11. ~suv

    ~suv Member

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    @ -skl

    If I had the skills, I'd love to help. 'Native GIMP' isn't my pet peeve though.

    I'm one of those lurkers around here, curious and hoping to learn more about the way the GIMP needs to be bundled to run on OS X (and I already have!).

    re 'native GIMP' - I'm pleased and impressed how fast and stable GIMP is on OS X. However, I'm having a hard time with the missing 'hide' command for any single X11 app. But then - who am I to complain - being quite a newbie to the mac (since january) itself. And I know there are other ways available to organize those windows...

    Your work is very much appreciated, thanks and please keep going!

    ~suv
     
  12. Samuël

    Samuël New Member

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    After reading all the comments, I found http://gimp-app.sourceforge.net/
    GIMP-2.6.0-native-experimental.dmg is a NATIVE version!
    Unfortunately it is over 3 years old :(
    Just an idea: continue programming on the native version and drop X11 :idea:
    The code is already available ;)
    And yes, I read all the comments.
     
  13. lisanet

    lisanet Member

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    Oh yes, I know. ;) You can check out the current code of 2.6.7 for Leopard from SVN. Just see

    viewtopic.php?p=50551#p50551


    ... that's great! Then you already know what I'm thinking about a "native" GIMP. Do you have any new arguments, beside the menubar?
    Are you willing to join the project?

    -skl
     
  14. andreasw

    andreasw Member

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    I would say that the biggest benefit of having a native version is that it's more accesible for new people. The menubar is also a big plus and correct me if wrong, but we won't get those resolution problems anymore. There has to be a reason to why OpenOffice spent a lot of resources on porting their app to the native environment!
     
  15. lisanet

    lisanet Member

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    this was a bug and it's fixed now. This has nothing to do with having a native GIMP or not. It was a bug in setting font sizes.

    just to clarify two points:

    a) I'm no GTK core developer

    and most important

    b) number of developer team leaders on OpenOffice.org: 43 (and a real gret number of developers)
    number of developers on GIMP on OS X: 1

    You wanna help?

    -skl
     
  16. andreasw

    andreasw Member

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    I'm very aware of this. I was just wondering why you're so hostile against a native version. I don't expect you to do it.
     
  17. lisanet

    lisanet Member

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    As I've written this already several times...

    … because it doesn't work.

    I've compiled a native GIMP version. And many things don't work as you might expect it to do.

    * the menubar doesn't work. You have no access to the right most menus

    GIMP / X11 uses a lot of scripts to set up things. Using this approach with a non-X11 version will give you another icon lying around in the Dock (you know, this black "Terminal" icon representing the real executable) Just have a look at Audacity to see this icon.

    If you don't use scripts, there is

    * no drag and drop
    * no localisation
    * no access to localized help if installed

    An there are much mire things, which don't work. Just have a look at this page:

    http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/gtk-osx/wiki/GtkQuartz

    So, why are you asking, if you already know hat I'm currently the only one who maintains GIMP on OS X?

    -skl
     
  18. sushant_mac

    sushant_mac New Member

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    Hey like you said Seashore is a start. But its now not developed. But can't we continue and add features to Seashore and make it Gimp like so called"GIMP NATIVE" . As Seashore source is open, we could change and might be easier than programming Whole GIMP from beginning to fit in Mac. I am not a developer but I support Opensource. SO I would like to help. I want to learn programming and help the community. I got to start somewhere so what should i do to help GIMP for mac.
     

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